04 – Spend time with me

Welcome to Trusting Children Podcast, Episode 4.

I’m Aisha, I am a mum, I have 3 young children and I’m a bit of a child development geek.

I started this podcast to share what I have learned and help parents respectfully navigate the confusing moments of parenthood. Thank you for taking the time today to tune in and listen to the show.

We all want to spend quality time with our children but what does that really mean? If you’re looking for some easy and meaningful ways of connecting with your kids then this episode is for you.

Parents are so busy and have so much to do these days and it’s easy for the parental guilt to kick in, worrying that we aren’t spending enough quality time with our children. In this episode we will look at different ways we can spend quality time with our children and how to build it into our busy days. By the end of this episode you will have an idea and possibly a plan on what you can do to create time for quality connection with your children and also how to respond when you don’t have time for them right that second.

Hi everyone, I hope you have had a good week. This morning I woke up about an hour before my children. I immediately had a list of things I could do and achieve running through my head, I remembered reading about all these women who wake up at 5am to get work done before their kids and thought YES I’ve finally managed this… but instead I decided to just lay there in the silence. I looooove being in bed and I don’t get to just lie in my bed very often anymore, so I did nothing. I wasn’t productive, I didn’t achieve anything but for those 40 peaceful mins early this morning I felt happy, laying on my daughter’s mattress with my feet sticking out the bottom of it and a duvet that was to short, I felt happy. I was in bed with no agenda, no-one rushing me and no-one climbing on my head. It made me think about the little things we can do to make ourselves happy. What little things make you happy? Let me know.

So let’s talk about quality time. We read about this in parenting magazines, articles, books. We hear it from friends, family, advisors and other parents. But what does spending quality time actually mean and what does it look like for children? I’m going to start off by saying that there is no one formula that will fit everyone. This is so personal and will be different for each family. We all have different family dynamics, different routines and habits, we all have different temperaments, characters and needs and our children do too. So you have to take what you hear in this episode and adapt it to your family, like every episode really. I’ll give you lots of examples and you can decide what to implement and how to implement them.

What is quality time. For our children it is time when we can give them our full, undivided, unhurried attention. We all have many things that need to be done every day, but if we can make an effort to carve out some time where we give our children 100% of our full attention (no distractions, no phones, no TV) it satisfies their need for connection. I’m sure you have come across the ‘cup’ analogy. When we spend time with our children we fill their emotional cup, their cup of connection, their cup of love and security. They feel seen, heard, valued and respected. When we can put away our devices and focus on them, the message we are giving them during this time is “you are the most important person to me right now, nothing else will keep me from you.” And it’s such an important message for our children to receive daily. Imagine trying to have a conversation with your friend or partner while they are scrolling or tapping on their phone. They might be responding to your questions, but you know they are not giving you their full attention. Children feel the same way and they sense when your mind and heart are somewhere else. Connection with a loving caregiver is one of the fundamental biological, emotional, physiological and psychological needs that children crave. We could say that everything they do, is related to how connected they feel to their loving carer. When we are distracted, doing something half-heartedly it sends them a very different message: “I have things to do that are more important than you.”

Now before your parental guilt starts to kick in, I’m quickly going to say that I am not talking about giving your children 100% attention every single minute that you are with them, that’s not realistic it isn’t humanly possible. We DO have other things to do that are also important. But the first step is being aware of this, keeping it in your mind. If you know you’ve been busy all day, make an effort to spend some un-distracted time with your child. Or if you know you’ll be out for a big chunk of the day give them some undivided attention before you leave. It really doesn’t have to be long. Even 5-10 minutes can make a huge difference. 5-10 minutes a day is enough to reassure your child that they ARE important to you. If they can feel this every day, even for a short time, it will help them feel calmer about their connection to you and relationship with you. They will feel that they are loved and important. If you need to, plan it into your day. I definitely do. If I know I am going out for the day, I will spend time with them. It makes the separation much easier, they are usually in an overall better mood and I am too. I feel less guilty about going out and I know that we have all filled our metaphorical cups. The quality over quantity equation is so true in this case. A small amount of full attention is so much more valuable than a whole day of half attention. Because for that whole day, they feel like they’re not as important as all these other things. Whilst, even if it’s 5-10 mins, they feel like they are THE most important thing to you for that time. Magda Gerber says “If you pay half attention all the time, that’s never full attention.”

I am going to talk about 2 concepts now that will hopefully give you an easy to follow framework, and also put your mind at ease if you’re panicking and thinking “OK, but HOW do it do it!” The first one is quality time as defined by RIE. And the second one is the Waldorf concept of an “inhale & exhale rhythm.” Don’t worry if you haven’t heard of these I am going to explain them both for you now.

RIE stands for Resources for Infant Educarers. Magda Gerber, the founder of the RIE method distinguished 2 types of quality time that we could spend with our children. And she called it “Wants Something Quality Time” or WSQT or “Wants Nothing Quality Time” or WNQT.

WSQT is when there is a specific purpose or task that you need to complete together with your child. This is where the RIE philosophy was so unusual but also eye-opening and mind-blowing for me. All caregiving activities fall under this WSQT umbrella. Doing things like nappy changes, dressing, feeding, washing, bathing, brushing hair or teeth, bedtime etc ARE quality time. Think about how many times in your child’s life you will change their nappy or feed them. Thousands. It’s the perfect opportunity to slow down and really connect with your child. Instead of trying to rush through these activities and get them ‘over and done with’ as quickly as we can, think of it as a deeply intimate and personal time you are spending together. Involve them in the process, talk them through what is happening and really connect. Magda Gerber says: “Seeing caregiving tasks as quality time will give your baby the feeling that you enjoy the time you spend together, which will make her feel valued. Savour the process.” Let’s imagine 2 scenarios. Say you rush through a nappy change, get it done in under 2 mins, score! You put your baby on the mat, they start fussing. You frantically search around the house for toys, waving them at your baby, here play with this, look at this. They might be interested for a while and then you need to think of other things to do with your baby. In contrast, imagine you put your baby on the changing table. You play peekaboo before you take their nappy off. You talk to them about how you’re going to change them and listen to them talking back. You give them a little massage while you sing or talk. The nappy change takes 15 mins. You lay your baby down on a mat with a book or rattle and they play for a few mins. Their cup has been filled. You don’t need to run around looking for ways to spend quality time, you have done it. Now I’m aware that it’s never as clear cut as this, babies are not a formula they are human, but you get the idea. The point is, if we turn caregiving activities into quality time, we don’t have to go searching for other ways of finding it. And if all your caregiving activities ARE spent this way, then you know that your child has had plenty of quality time with you that day even if you don’t manage anything else.

The other type of quality time Magda Gerber talked about is “WNQT” which means “Wants Nothing Quality Time.” This is when you have no agenda, goals or plans during the time you are together. The only thing you want during this time is to be with your child. You are there with them, and you follow their lead. This is an ideal time for observations. I talk about observations in Episode 1 if you want more information about that. The important thing to remember is you have no agenda, you follow their lead completely. It’s their time, their play. You can watch them and listen to them soaking up every little bit. Your child might want to involve you in their play or they might play independently near you. Do not underestimate the importance of being there with them even though they might seem occupied with something else. Resist the temptation to look at your phone or go grab yourself a drink (prepare it beforehand), they will sense your attention shifting to something else or if you leave. Playing on their own in your presence builds an important foundation of security and connection in order for them to become independent in the future. I’m going to give you another Magda Gerber quote here, because it’s so important to have this type of time as well. She says “It is very comforting for him [the child] to know you are there, really there, without any pressure to have to do something to keep your attention.” You might be watching your baby while they play on a mat, or you might be engaging in some play with your toddler. Remember whatever it is they are doing, they are leading.

As with everything I would recommend you use them as guidance, not some fixated rules. Caregiving activities with older children will look very different to those with babies. With toddlers, you can be more active, play games. My kids love to run away while I chase them when I’m putting their pyjamas on. With my 4 year old, I will sometimes sit by her wardrobe and we talk about which outfits she is choosing, etc. If we are cooking or baking something together, that is quality time. If we are arranging the room or deciding which toys to get out, that is quality time. If she is helping me to pack the bag for a day out with their snacks and water, that is quality time. When you really think about it, you probably spend so much quality time with your children already, you just might not be aware of it 🙂

Ok, a quick test…can you remember what the two different types of quality time were called? Just kidding…and I’m not even going to repeat them, because it does’t matter what they are called, you don’t need to worry about that. What you need to remember is that you can have quality time with a purpose, and quality time without a purpose.

Ok I can hear you asking, so does this mean we need to turn every bath time, every mealtime, every nappy change into quality time? Don’t stress, because the answer is NO. And this is where I find the Waldorf concept of a breathing rhythm so helpful, especially when the parental-guilt starts kicking in.

This concept was created by Rudolf Steiner and it’s used in Waldorf schools and preschools. In his words: “Among all the ways in which human beings relate to the external world, breathing is the most important.” Of course, there is so much more to the Waldorf education philosophy and I am not going to try to do it justice here, I just want to talk about this single idea of a breathing rhythm, because it can be very easily transferred into a home environment and provides a great framework to work within. The idea is that throughout the day there are periods of ‘breathing in/inhaling” and “breathing out/exhaling.” In a school setting, they base this around a natural cycle of 90 minutes, usually ‘breathing in’ periods are where the children will do something with an adult, guided activities, circle times etc and then ‘breathing out’ periods are where they can play independently. So how can we use this at home? Think of it as “breathing in” periods is when you can give your children attention, you are filing their cup, and “breathing out” periods are when you need to do something else and your children can do their own thing too. I am absolutely not suggesting a 90 min limit on either of these. How long each period lasts will depend on the age of your child, on your daily routine and plan. The idea is that for every “breath out/exhale” (when you have to do something else), you can give your children a breath in/inhale – where you do something with them. You can’t keep breathing out indefinitely can you? You need a breath in to fuel you for the breath out. Think of the breath as connection, or their emotional cup. I’ll give you another image here, I sometimes imagine our children’s cups are slightly tilted. I’ll pour love and connection in, but throughout the day it slowly just drips out and needs refiling every so often.

I sometimes use this inhale/exhale concept proactively: for example if I know I need to do some work, or am going out for the day or they are going to nursery I make sure that I spend some time with them before we separate. It could be playing, it could be reading a story…whatever it is, it’s intentional and I leave my phone on the side (most of the time). The other day Mark and I were getting ready to go out for the day. We needed to get all the meals ready for the babysitter, get the children dressed, get ourselves ready etc. At some point I got annoyed at him and said something like “It would be nice if you were also doing something!” And he said “I am! I’m reading with the kids” haha, that shut me up pretty quick. Of course, spending time with our children before we leave is equally as important as getting all the meals ready. If you are a more organised person than me, then make a plan, build it into your day. Reading a story and cuddling before you rush out the door dropping everyone off at school is not wasted time.

Also remember, it doesn’t always have to be a whole day thing. If I want to have a shower I might read them a quick story or cuddle on the sofa for a few minutes before.

Other times I use it to take a stock-check, so to speak, of the day. If I look back on the day and realise, we rushed to get ready in the morning, they we were out shopping, then I was cooking, then I was cleaning or…whatever, and I realise I haven’t spent any time with them, I’ll make sure that I set aside a bit of extra time to get ready for bed without rushing. Extra story, extra snuggles, a few minutes to play with them. If I can look back on the day and see that we had loads of breaths out then I ensure I make time for some breaths in. Just a reminder about screens, no judgement intended, just being aware…screentime is not a breath in, it’s not quality time together. Even if you are sitting with them, it’s not fully connecting. Just be aware when you look back at your day, not to count it as connection time. Usually, when I just switch the screen off, there are inevitably some tears, but if I immediately follow it up with a nice deep breath in, a story and a snuggle it eases the transition back into reality. Try it.

Does that all seem more manageable?

Of course, there will be plenty of opportunities that don’t fit exactly into any these categories exactly, or you might feel like they overlap a few and that is ok. We’re not trying to fit things into boxes, we are using these guidelines to make our lives easier.

And I really notice when I don’t give them that quality time. I’ll be trying to do something while the kids are hanging off my legs, whining. I get frustrated, they are feeling disconnected and generally it’s not a great situation. Have you felt that before? Whilst if I remember to give them some attention and connection time before, it can be easier. I’m not saying they are always amazing and just go off and play on their own, haha definitely not. But I feel a bit better, I have a bit of power to combat this guilt creeping in, because I know I’ve given them time, I know I’ve filled their cup and now… I need a shower and 5 mins to myself, I’m gonna say guilt-“go away”(I can’t say anything else, because otherwise I’d have to mark the content of this episode as explicit!)

So how can we respond when our children really want something and we can’t just drop everything that second. This comes back to honestly communicating (episode 2) and acknowledging their feelings and needs (episode 3). “I know you really want me to read with you, I’d love to read you a story and I will as soon as I finish cleaning the kitchen. Would you like to choose a book while you wait?” Or “I’d love to play with you, I’ll finish work in 30 mins and I’ll be with you, I know it’s hard to wait. Would you like to choose something to do while you wait?” Try to use positive language, focus on the things you WILL do together rather than what you CAN’T do at the moment.

It’s important to know that when children don’t get the connection they need, they start craving it and seeking it, asking for it. Remember they won’t say “Ah, dad listen, I’ve had a rough morning, I fell out with my brother he literally ripped the elephant out of my hand, then I tried to talk to mum about it but she was on the phone… can I have your attention for a few mins please’ they will say “Play with me” or “cuddle me” or “read to me.” If they don’t get the connection they are seeking the cravings just keep building up and ultimately they get into a state where ANY attention is better than none, we want to avoid getting into this situation. There is this image, I don’t know if you’ve seen it, where a young child is grafting the wall and his mother and a friend are sitting on a couch and she’s saying “he’s just doing this for attention” and what he is spray-painting on the wall are the words “I need love.” Yes, he is seeking attention, he is seeking connection, and if it gets to a point where only extreme behaviours get children the attention and connection that their whole being craves that’s what they will keep doing. Obviously this is an extreme case, what we want, what we are after is a healthy balance.

So, let’s just quickly summarise it all. You can have quality time with a purpose, quality time without a purpose. Use caregiving activities as opportunities for connection and quality time. Think about your day having a breathing rhythm. There are times when you breathe in, you give your children quality time & connection, and there are times when you breathe out, when you have to get things done and your children can either occupy themselves or join / help you.

Are you ready to give it a try? Like I said at the beginning, this is going to be so different, so personal for each family. So find your rhythm, find what works for you, what your children respond to. Make your next caregiving activity quality time. Whether it’s changing your baby, dressing your toddler, helping your preschooler prepare for the day, slow down and be fully present. Involve them in the process and try not to rush it. Fill their emotional cup with this intimate connection.

And make a mental note throughout the day. Have you had lots of exhales and not many inhales? If so, make it up by doing something with your child to connect. Connect without a purpose, following their play or make sure you connect more during the next caregiving activity. As always, if you have any questions or comments you can find me on Facebook or instagram @trusitngchilren, you can always send me an email Aisha @ and let me know how it’s going.

Now time for our Everyday Heroes section.

Parents are the unrecognised and under appreciated heroes of our world. We do so much important work on an everyday basis and it needs to be talked about more. All parents are heroes and every parents story deserves to be heard.

Hi everyone! Today we have Monika who is going to share her story with us. Monika would like to talk about her experience with parental burnout and how she got through it. She has 2 little girls, a 6 year old and a 2 year old. Her experience with both girls were very different as she was in two different countries. Monica is from Melbourne, Australia and she currently lives in Prague.

Aisha: Hi Monika! Thanks for joining us and welcome.

Monika: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I am very nervous to be talking about my parental journey. I’m not one to talk about myself too much. It has been an interesting experience for me to reflect on where I have been and where I am now with my 2 girls. I am from Melbourne, Australia and I had my first daughter, Bianca, there 6 years ago. She was born in 2014 and I remember being very ready to have kids but it took me such a long time to birth the mother inside of me. I remember having a lot of initial anxiety around what is the right thing to do and what is the right way to parent. Being in Australia, we have quite a short maternity/parental leave. I think I had 6 months off with Bianca and then I had to go back to work. One from a social perspective, I felt I had to go back to work as it was the thing to do. And then two financially we had to and it was part of the plan. I remember feelings of guilt being at work and she being in childcare 3 days a week. It took me a long time to process how to be a mum and work. How do I do all the things I want to do as a parent? I was working part time for 6 months and then for some crazy reason I started a PhD when she was 1 year old. It was a joint decision between my husband and I that we were going to focus on my career. At that time I was very excited about it. We felt we were handling it all-Bianca is at child care, we are great parents, we are having fun and now it is time to focus on me. So I remember being excited but also thinking “what am I doing?” “Why at such a young age am I going out and doing something new?” I hadn’t even settled into my parenting role yet.

Aisha: So did you put more pressure on yourself?

Monika: On top of everything. Yes. It was a subconscious thing. So 6 months into that, I started getting irritable and frustrated all the time. I was teary all the time and I wasn’t sure why. So I went out and got some help and I was diagnosed with postpartum anxiety. This was 18 months into being a parent and I took a step back from everything. I realised that I hadn’t really started the role as a mother. I hadn’t really invested my time into hanging out with Bianca and figuring out my priorities as a parent. I took 6 months off and really started to focus on everything. That whole time I did have a lot of ongoing postpartum anxiety issues that had started from birth. I had a traumatic birth, traumatic first 3 months, I didn’t have enough milk, and there were a lot of troubles in the beginning. I had my own pressure of wanting to breastfeed and having troubles around that. Also, trying to find the needs that I wanted to do like going out and doing it all. It took me 18 months to realise that I was burnt out and I hadn’t had time to focus on me, us or our little family.

Aisha: It is good that you had the support and you realised it. However long it takes… when you do realise that “wow” I haven’t dealt with all those things after the post birth and breastfeeding. Sometimes it takes us awhile for us to realise that is what is going on.

Can you compare how you felt with your 2nd daughter?

Monika: Very very different experience with Freya. In-between Bianca and Freya I had 3 miscarriages. It is still unknown why and it was 3 in a row. I had all the investigations done and did not find a reason as to wether it was linked to my mental state or just not meant to be. We had those experiences in-between but then Freya came along. We had planned to move to Prague for awhile so when she was 10 months old we moved. I have been on parental leave since then and she is 2.5 years old now.

Since my first experience, I have been able to take a step back and realise that they are little for such a short time and you’ve got your whole life to work towards your career goals or whatever it might be. I have really enjoyed it. However, it has been quite interesting. Coming from Australia; you have your work, you have your family and you do all this. But in the Czech Republic, it is quite normal to have 3 years parental leave with each child. That came as quite a shock to me. Wow! Being home with the children has also been really really difficult for me too. I have had some of those same feelings come back; the overwhelm, the irritability, and the frustrations of being home in the intense early days when your kids need a lot of your attention.

But I am much better prepared from my first experience and having that time off. I had 6 months and I have been able to find some self-care strategies that work for me and my family. I am much better able to deal with stress; not just family stress or parenting stress but stress in life.

Aisha: Will you share some of those strategies? What do you do to help yourself get through difficult moments?

Monika: Everyday I try to weave in a proper meditation session or just deep breathing. When I am feeling like things are getting stressful, I try to meditate everyday. I move daily with exercise or at least just a bit of movement everyday. I try to do it alone and I think that is the key for me. I need quite a bit of alone time and I recognise that so I communicate that with the girls and my husband. “Now it is time for mummy.” “Mummy is going for a walk.” “Mummy is going in to do some exercise.” “You are safe and everything is ok but mummy is doing this.” Communication with my husband and my girls and setting boundaries. I am showing them that it is important to look after yourself too.

Aisha: Absolutely! Also, not feeling guilty about it. You recognise that you need this time alone and you have communicated to your family that this is what you need. You take it and you don’t feel guilty about it. You know you are looking after yourself so you can then look after your family.

Monika: 100%! Mum guilt is real. I experienced the mum guilt when I was working and now I experience the mum guilt with Freya and I’m with her 100% of the time. You can’t win- you are going to have it either way somewhere along the way. Let it go and set expectations has been my big thing. Maybe there is a bit of perfectionism in me and I have had to let go of that.

Aisha: Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us! I am sure there will be tons of parents out there who will absolutely and totally relate to what you have said and will find comfort in your words!

Monika: Thank you for having me!

That is all from me today. Thank you for being here and for showing up for your children. I hope this was helpful and I’ll see you in the next episode. We are all in this together and we have got this!